Suggestion: I'd personally like every course we manage to fund here to be shared on the site OCC.

[Whitetiger]

Hello,
As I said in my previous message, personally, I'd be in favor of all the courses we manage to fund here being able to be shared for free on OCC (as has always been the case, up until now, when someone wanted to share a particular course. I've funded several courses out of my own pocket that I've then shared on OCC for free and I don't think that should change for group buys).

Especially since it divides the community in two:

• those who can pay and have access to a "premium" type of courses
• those who can't afford it and will only be able to access OCC courses (without premium usage)

As a result, we're losing the very essence of the site, which was to provide content for all those who don't have the money. While technically, most of the courses we're trying to fund come from COLOSO, CLASS101, it seems logical to me that these should also be available to everyone, (as was the case when someone shared them on their own).

It's just my suggestion, though, and I'd understand if some people didn't agree. But let's not forget why OCC was created in the first place: to help, not for profit. And it makes me very sad if that changes, because it's currently one of the few sites (and even the only one) that offers this system.

 

[KT256]

Hello,
As I said in my previous message, personally, I'd be in favor of all the courses we manage to fund here being able to be shared for free on OCC (as has always been the case, up until now, when someone wanted to share a particular course. I've funded several courses out of my own pocket that I've then shared on OCC for free and I don't think that should change for group buys).

Especially since it divides the community in two:
- those who can pay and have access to a "premium" type of courses
- those who can't afford it and will only be able to access OCC courses (without premium usage)

As a result, we're losing the very essence of the site, which was to provide content for all those who don't have the money. While technically, most of the courses we're trying to fund come from COLOSO, CLASS101, it seems logical to me that these should also be available to everyone, (as was the case when someone shared them on their own).

It's just my suggestion, though, and I'd understand if some people didn't agree. But let's not forget why OCC was created in the first place: to help, not for profit. And it makes me very sad if that changes, because it's currently one of the few sites (and even the only one) that offers this system.

I completely agree with you. On every other site where they have done group buys like this and not shared it with the entire community it caused a lot of animosity between the group buy people and the people that can't afford to buy in. Then eventually someone in the group buy leaks it to everyone for free and things get nasty. If you want to give the people in the group buy a perk, then maybe give them access for a week then make it free to all. At the very least I think a time frame needs to be set for release to everyone in the community as part of the rules. Just my opinion.

 

[sakanafish]

I agree with your thoughts, and I also hope that it will be available on the occ website in the end.
But I can understand that some people don't want to do this, and there could be many reasons.
Personally, what I would like more is "to be able to choose". Whether it is voting in the group, or setting up "groups willing to put on the OCC website" and "groups not willing to", or even other good practices, I think it is enough for me to have a choice.

Of course, personally, most of the time I would be willing to let everyone watch it for free.

 

[Lua]

Personally, I do understand some people who are unwilling, just if price is too high, I just disagree somewhat since at the end no matter if you think they deserved it or not the main reason we are doing this and in this rut is because we aren’t rich art center kids. Also I know it’s obvious but we need more people . Imagine group buy for like four bucks, I would chip in even if I wasn’t that interested.

 

[Whitetiger]

Each of your comments is very pertinent.

As you explained, we'd either have to set up a voting system for each course, to find out who's ok to share, or simply set a time limit for free OCC users. That is, they can access the courses but only two weeks after the actual release, for example. Those who have paid for the course get it as a kind of "early access", and users who don't pay have to wait a while. However, I don't know if this is really feasible...

And indeed, the more people in the group buys, the more advantageous it is. Everyone pays less. But I'm not sure it's a good way of motivating them, saying "don't worry, only you'll get the courses and the others will have to pay too". All the more so as it may create resale (some will probably have fun reselling the courses they've obtained to other sites) or simply share them with other people, which means that the courses will still be redistributed elsewhere... Maybe just a smaller circle, but it'll still be shared. It would be wiser simply to promote it as much as possible the group buys and let users have the courses for free on OCC, later.

 

[weekee]

I agree with this suggestion. And I want to add something. The idea of making this program as a "Group Buy" is one of the problem in my opinion. People will think the product that they "bought together" are owned by themselves and It will make them think twice when they have to share that in the community, because they will assume that they have a full right of the product by paying it.

Instead I prefer this program as a Group Fundraising or something like that. When people are helping to fund each other for the sake of growing the community and adding new courses to the platform. The idea is "if you want this course exist in our platform for everyone, please fund it" not "if you want to bought this course for cheap, pay this amount of price". There is a lot of people who share their purchased course for the sake of community for free, isn't it not fair for them if this turn to be premium exclusive?

I agree that we need to appreciate the "funders" to make people willing to pay. But there is a lot of way to appreciate them such as early access, the premium thing in mediafile, custom badge, or credit maybe.

Again this is just my opinion, feel free to share your thought about it, cheers

 

[Whitetiger]

I agree with this suggestion. And I want to add something. The idea of making this program as a "Group Buy" is one of the problem in my opinion. People will think the product that they "bought together" are owned by themselves and It will make them think twice when they have to share that in the community, because they will assume that they have a full right of the product by paying it.

Instead I prefer this program as a Group Fundraising or something like that. When people are helping to fund each other for the sake of growing the community and adding new courses to the platform. The idea is "if you want this course exist in our platform for everyone, please fund it" not "if you want to bought this course for cheap, pay this amount of price". There is a lot of people who share their purchased course for the sake of community for free, isn't it not fair for them if this turn to be premium exclusive?

I agree that we need to appreciate the "funders" to make people willing to pay. But there is a lot of way to appreciate them such as early access, the premium thing in mediafile, custom badge, or credit maybe.

Again this is just my opinion, feel free to share your thought about it, cheers

Very good point, you are indeed right! It would be better to rename the "group buy club" as a "fundraiser", with each member of the community financing a particular course if they can and each contributing in their own way. There's another thing I'm wondering about: in this "fund-raising campaign" (if we can rename it that way), you should be able to put in whatever amount you want. However, on some courses, an amount per participant is indicated. I'd be more in favor of everyone donating the amount they want: from $1 to any amount they wish/can, for example.

And also that we have the possibility of paying by Paypal easily, because not everyone holds crypto or knows how to pay with it. The more people donate, the more likely it is that the courses will be funded. Except that if payment methods are limited or complicated, this prevents as many donations as possible. The same applies if the amount has already been set per participant.

I don't know what is possible at the moment..

 

[Akira23]

I agree with you! I even still not getting how to pay credits here. OCC much easier too beside what u have mentioned

 

[Aydenthekitsune]

I'm in favor of this as well, as Admin I agree that we should keep the education free as this entire site was founded on. Education is becoming more and more out of reach for the public and the public good. Education is a human right, everyone should be able to pursue, in abundance, the knowledge that is being further and further placed out of reach. From personal experience, I can say that what Whitetiger here is mentioning is beginning to again, place certain courses out of reach for the rest of the members. Even though I am an admin, I do not see myself as above anyone else in the chat, or the group. I am, like you a pursuer of education. My role is to ensure that the chat flows reasonably, that members who submit courses help get the premium access that they deserve for sharing courses and that this site does not fall off track. Thanks for your comments members, you are what keep the site going.

 

[Alma]

Had to create an account because I felt the need to write my opinion. I also think "group buy" goes against the core values of OCC. Keeping the course behind a soft paywall while lower than the original doesn't feel right. I do feel that people that did contribute to the acquisition of the course should have some credit. It would be great if we could crowdfund courses and unlock them for the community. Paying 300 USD for a course is impossible for me given the shitty currency plus taxes my country has but I could chip in with 5 or 7 dollars if I knew it would be available to everyone after the purchase.

 

[CodeMaster]

I also agree with your opinion, but how can I share all the courses I purchased on Coloso? Can I download the videos from the Coloso platform for sharing, or is there any tool that can solve this?

 

[elon]

As said previously, I hope the courses will be available for OCC.
After all we are a community and if the access gets restricted many that have contributed in the past will feel resentful.
And to be honest people that shared courses in the past are already sharing their dissatisfaction in the comment section of OCC.
If the courses are funded the community can focus on contributing on other courses. Instead of funding multiple times the same one.

 

[elon]

Hello,
As I said in my previous message, personally, I'd be in favor of all the courses we manage to fund here being able to be shared for free on OCC (as has always been the case, up until now, when someone wanted to share a particular course. I've funded several courses out of my own pocket that I've then shared on OCC for free and I don't think that should change for group buys).

Especially since it divides the community in two:

• those who can pay and have access to a "premium" type of courses
• those who can't afford it and will only be able to access OCC courses (without premium usage)

As a result, we're losing the very essence of the site, which was to provide content for all those who don't have the money. While technically, most of the courses we're trying to fund come from COLOSO, CLASS101, it seems logical to me that these should also be available to everyone, (as was the case when someone shared them on their own).

It's just my suggestion, though, and I'd understand if some people didn't agree. But let's not forget why OCC was created in the first place: to help, not for profit. And it makes me very sad if that changes, because it's currently one of the few sites (and even the only one) that offers this system.

I completely agree with all the mentioned reasons, and would like to add that buying and sharing courses is one thing.
People share when they can afford it for others that can't.
For beginners 600$ for a course is incredibly expensive, especially for those who come from a country that is less advantageous than the $.

But making small groups pay each time the course, is so bad. That's reselling a course...

Each time I buy and share I think about the artists behind it, even though I keep feeling guilty I'm glad to help others realize their dream to become artists and pros in their field and I'm grateful to all the people that shared their courses because I wouldn't have the skills I have now.

I can't fathom and don't see the point of making small groups pay the same course multiple times.

 

[nekorine]

I'm willing to pitch in for courses and make them available for everyone on OCC. If I pay for a course thru exclusive group buy and then see people requesting for it in OCC, I'd feel so bad for them and might just send them the course for free. After all, we're all here to learn and share knowledge.

 

[wonton]

Yes, I would also agree with the sentiment in this suggestion and also if we have more people the groupbuy prices will go down and no one would think much to pay $5 vs 10 or more

 

[Whitetiger]

I also agree with your opinion, but how can I share all the courses I purchased on Coloso? Can I download the videos from the Coloso platform for sharing, or is there any tool that can solve this?

There was a method that had been shared for CLASS101 and that also worked for COLOSO, which consisted in having a few code bases, downloading each video with the Tampermonkey extension and Bento4, and get the video from the page's source code (but that was a long time ago). One guy had shared a video on reddit but unfortunately deleted it and the thread with it, because he was receiving a lot of requests (and his video wasn't very understandable for someone who didn't know anything about code) nevertheless, I still have his video, but I don't think I'm allowed to share it here.

Other option: DRM worked for some people, but not all, same for browser extensions to download videos, some work for some people for a while.

Last option that always works but is terribly time-consuming (especially when some videos last several hours, so you'd better have several PCs to use this method) : record your own screen while the video is running

You'd have to ask the admins or strawberry, if they know of a method and check with them, especially as a lot of people are interested in online courses on COLOSO. And there's no point in funding courses that some people already have and can share.

 

[Whitetiger]

I completely agree with all the mentioned reasons, and would like to add that buying and sharing courses is one thing.
People share when they can afford it for others that can't.
For beginners 600$ for a course is incredibly expensive, especially for those who come from a country that is less advantageous than the $.

But making small groups pay each time the course, is so bad. That's reselling a course...

Each time I buy and share I think about the artists behind it, even though I keep feeling guilty I'm glad to help others realize their dream to become artists and pros in their field and I'm grateful to all the people that shared their courses because I wouldn't have the skills I have now.

I can't fathom and don't see the point of making small groups pay the same course multiple times.

I also totally agree with you, you've said it all!

And honestly, you shouldn't feel guilty! I've shared many CLASS101 courses and quite frankly, most of the content wasn't worth the price (before the subscription system, each course cost an average of $150) because if you searched on the internet, it was easy to find the same information. And as Strawberry once pointed out on OCC, this isn't customer theft, because these are people who probably couldn't afford to have access to these courses, since for some of them, this represents a month's salary. And it's good publicity for the artist in spite of everything, as some of them will feel indebted to having had it for free and may go on to buy an item from the artist if they have an online shop, a patreon subscription, or make a donation to the artist at a later date.

Coloso is different in that because it's all about real pro artists, and the content is quite elaborate . But CLASS101, most of the content is done by self-taught artists, who have no teaching skills. Many of the courses on this site aren't worth the money, and I've always found them far too expensive for what they are. I had bought a few during the blackfriday period (some courses were heavily discounted, like -70% off). They skim over the fundamentals of art too quickly, and at no point do some of them tell you to "do this exercise regularly for practice", you just see how the artist does it, an assignment to do, without any real explanation, pedagogy, then you move on to the next video and so on. Above all, the aim was normally to get feedback, but the artists never reply when you share your piece in the comments section... All these reasons have meant that I don't even feel guilty about sharing videos anymore, because it's a rip-off for the price.

 

[gyarufox]

I'm cool with courses i fund being on OCC. i owe the community after I've gotten so many courses from there. my only thing is that being who fund the course should get a quick way to download first that's not on occ since you need premium for quick/ mass downloads

 

[roeroa27]

I'm cool if we take few month (3 months at least) to share courses. That way everyone willing to contribute for faster content and everyone can get free courses later.

 

[Whitetiger]

I'm cool if we take few month (3 months at least) to share courses. That way everyone willing to contribute for faster content and everyone can get free courses later.

Hello ! Personally, I think 3 months is a relatively long time. A few weeks is more than enough in my humble opinion, about 2-3 weeks. The aim is not to force people to absolutely participate in order to get the course as quickly as possible, but simply that everyone who wishes to contribute to the community in one way or another, does so, without a mechanism of this type that seems to force people more than anything else.

In any case, if certain courses really interest people, they'll come of their own accord to participate. As one user pointed out, if certain courses ask for a participation of $2-$3 or even $4-$5 per participant, this will bring people back to join in financing such a course. And for this modest sum, I don't see why we should make those who haven't had the chance to take part wait a minimum of 3 months.