Suggestion: I'd personally like every course we manage to fund here to be shared on the site OCC.

[Whitetiger]

Hello,
As I said in my previous message, personally, I'd be in favor of all the courses we manage to fund here being able to be shared for free on OCC (as has always been the case, up until now, when someone wanted to share a particular course. I've funded several courses out of my own pocket that I've then shared on OCC for free and I don't think that should change for group buys).

Especially since it divides the community in two:

• those who can pay and have access to a "premium" type of courses
• those who can't afford it and will only be able to access OCC courses (without premium usage)

As a result, we're losing the very essence of the site, which was to provide content for all those who don't have the money. While technically, most of the courses we're trying to fund come from COLOSO, CLASS101, it seems logical to me that these should also be available to everyone, (as was the case when someone shared them on their own).

It's just my suggestion, though, and I'd understand if some people didn't agree. But let's not forget why OCC was created in the first place: to help, not for profit. And it makes me very sad if that changes, because it's currently one of the few sites (and even the only one) that offers this system.

 

[soranetakemi]

I believe the GBC community provides significant value, as the website addresses the issue of the exorbitant cost of new courses. Despite the numerous drawbacks mentioned by its members, I still think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. As a learner, being able to make purchases at one-tenth of the price is of extremely high value.

 

[Rico_Rodriguez]

After careful consideration, I have decided to withdraw my participation from all groups, with the exception of the two for which I have already made a payment.

My intention is to step away from these groups temporarily, and I plan to rejoin once a final decision has been reached regarding the matter we discussed. I believe that the possibility of sharing within our community could greatly benefit everyone involved. Therefore, I kindly request that we revisit this decision in due course.

If, however, the decision remains unfavorable towards sharing within the community, I feel compelled to inform you that my associates and I have discussed the option of providing our group-buys to the community without charge. We hold the community's best interests at heart and want to ensure that everyone can benefit from the resources available.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration. I eagerly await your response and hope for a positive resolution that aligns with the spirit of collaboration and mutual benefit.

Are you mentally ill or what? I literally don't understand why you guys have so much hate. Like WTF?!. Don't you fucking understand how much work admins have putted in to this project. You act like a dumb childish kid, who didn't get his candy, and now making a scene out of it. If you don't like something you can just leave, no one is holding you!. If you are so generous and you want to play a role of ROBINHOOD, purchase your own course and give it away! If you are here to get free course, go back to OCC, you will find plenty of free stuff there. You are backing your words with "For the community", but to be honest, you did nothing positive, constructive or beneficial. You are just adding fuel into fire. WHY NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW ADMINS ARE GIVING AWAY FREE PREMIUM! Due to complications with paypal they decided to top-up account with Mediafile and as a Bonus you get FREE PREMIUM MEDAIFILE!!! BUT NOW ONE CARES! Youre a stubborn offended kid, that is crying because mommy didn't buy him a toy

The conclusion is simple...... 3 selfish, hypocritic, mentally ill degenerates took a role of a tumor, which lives at the expense of the host. F#K U guys! If you don't like something just leave. World is not gonna end. There is only 2-3 of you, which is miserable compare to 4k of users (60-chapters -26k views, gatan - 7k, solkorra - 5k). 4 THOUSAND OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP THE COMMUNITY

Thank you!

 

[soranetakemi]

I believe that the current shortage of members in the GBC community is our main challenge. However, when we have a sufficient number of members, the pricing issue can be easily resolved. The more people join, the lower the price can be. I think one of our primary tasks now is to complete the courses as quickly as possible, as the completed courses will attract more members to join the community. As long as we have enough people, many complex problems will become easier to solve.

For the staff, I believe it's a very bad idea to promise users, even at the early stages of GBC community development, that courses will be open to OCC within three months. This will actually reduce the interest of people in joining the GBC community and make it harder for GBC to acquire new members. After all, if courses can easily be obtained at OCC, why would someone want to join the GBC community? This could actually make things more difficult for GBC.

I think to some extent, the staff of GBC community have given new members too much power, which is actually very detrimental to the development of GBC. There have even been users threatening the staff, saying, "If you don't promise to release the documents for free, we will do it ourselves." I believe that giving users too much power will only make the staff waste more time on meaningless matters.

Our main goal now is to complete the courses and bring in more people. When more people join, it's not too late to discuss the pricing issue with the staff.

 

[soranetakemi]

Are you mentally ill or what? I literally don't understand why you guys have so much hate. Like WTF?!. Don't you fucking understand how much work admins have putted in to this project. You act like a dumb childish kid, who didn't get his candy, and now making a scene out of it. If you don't like something you can just leave, no one is holding you!. If you are so generous and you want to play a role of ROBINHOOD, purchase your own course and give it away! If you are here to get free course, go back to OCC, you will find plenty of free stuff there. You are backing your words with "For the community", but to be honest, you did nothing positive, constructive or beneficial. You are just adding fuel into fire. WHY NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW ADMINS ARE GIVING AWAY FREE PREMIUM! Due to complications with paypal they decided to top-up account with Mediafile and as a Bonus you get FREE PREMIUM MEDAIFILE!!! BUT NOW ONE CARES! Youre a stubborn offended kid, that is crying because mommy didn't buy him a toy

The conclusion is simple...... 3 selfish, hypocritic, mentally ill degenerates took a role of a tumor, which lives at the expense of the host. F#K U guys! If you don't like something just leave. World is not gonna end. There is only 2-3 of you, which is miserable compare to 4k of users (60-chapters -26k views, gatan - 7k, solkorra - 5k). 4 THOUSAND OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP THE COMMUNITY

Thank you!

Please refrain from attacking any member. Elonmusk0346 is one of the contributors who has made significant contributions to the community. In my opinion, it's essential for us to have a relatively objective discussion of the issues here, as problem-solving is the most crucial aspect.

 

[elonmusk0346]

Please refrain from attacking any member. Elonmusk0346 is one of the contributors who has made significant contributions to the community. In my opinion, it's essential for us to have a relatively objective discussion of the issues here, as problem-solving is the most crucial aspect.

Thank you for approaching this as a debate rather than an argument. I am truly grateful to the administrators for their dedicated efforts in offering free courses. Their support has enabled me to learn and subsequently launch a successful career as a freelance artist. While I hold the community and the provision of free courses in high regard, I would like to shift our focus momentarily to better understand the allocation of additional funds.

My inquiry centers around the matter of financial transparency. It is not a matter of doubting the intentions or decisions of the administrators, but rather a desire to gain insight into where the surplus funds are being directed. As a beneficiary of the courses and a concerned member of the community, I, along with my friends, believe that a clearer understanding of the financial aspects can foster a more informed and engaged community. This transparency would also allow us to comprehend the reasons behind certain financial choices, such as the allocation of funds away from pending courses.

 

[arimakana]

I agree the question whether courses will be free later on or not is something that can be discussed once GBC is more solid.

The one thing I think that should be made clear now is regarding the amount of extra money courses are getting (Like Gatan's, for example, which is very popular).

If it's going to expanses (if so, which expanses are these?) or to fund other courses (if so, those courses being backed by the extra amount can be available for at least those who participated in the GB the funds are coming from?).

Those are the things that need to be explained as soon as possible to make people more confident on participating.

 

[Rico_Rodriguez]

I believe that the current shortage of members in the GBC community is our main challenge. However, when we have a sufficient number of members, the pricing issue can be easily resolved. The more people join, the lower the price can be. I think one of our primary tasks now is to complete the courses as quickly as possible, as the completed courses will attract more members to join the community. As long as we have enough people, many complex problems will become easier to solve.

For the staff, I believe it's a very bad idea to promise users, even at the early stages of GBC community development, that courses will be open to OCC within three months. This will actually reduce the interest of people in joining the GBC community and make it harder for GBC to acquire new members. After all, if courses can easily be obtained at OCC, why would someone want to join the GBC community? This could actually make things more difficult for GBC.

I think to some extent, the staff of GBC community have given new members too much power, which is actually very detrimental to the development of GBC. There have even been users threatening the staff, saying, "If you don't promise to release the documents for free, we will do it ourselves." I believe that giving users too much power will only make the staff waste more time on meaningless matters.

Our main goal now is to complete the courses and bring in more people. When more people join, it's not too late to discuss the pricing issue with the staff.

This is exactly what Owl said in the previous text, but surprisingly no one understood, prob due to lack of gray matter

 

[Rico_Rodriguez]

I agree the question whether courses will be free later on or not is something that can be discussed once GBC is more solid.

The one thing I think that should be made clear now is regarding the amount of extra money courses are getting (Like Gatan's, for example, which is very popular).

If it's going to expanses (if so, which expanses are these?) or to fund other courses (if so, those courses being backed by the extra amount can be available for at least those who participated in the GB the funds are coming from?).

Those are the things that need to be explained as soon as possible to make people more confident on participating.

Well, If you don't like something, you can just leave. As I have said, no one is taking a role of a Robhinhood. If you feel like, you are ready to handle all the responsibilities, go make your own GBC and give away courses there.

 

[Radiant]

I feel the slings at people's intelligence is a tad uncalled for here.

 

[soranetakemi]

Indeed, on the other hand, there do seem to be some potential pricing issues with the current courses in the GBC community. I believe that to some extent, due to us being in the early stages of development, the staff might need more funding to address various issues. This has caused some dissatisfaction among people. If, in the mid-stage of community development, we could introduce some "incentive mechanisms" for early joiners who purchase courses, it might encourage people to join the forum and make purchases. For instance, latecomers could pay double the fee, and this additional fee could lower the "participation" price for the next course purchase. This way, the design of a double fee structure could bring substantial benefits to us.

 

[arimakana]

This is exactly what Owl said in the previous text, but surprisingly no one understood, prob due to lack of gray matter

We understood that.

You are mixing up what is being asked here.

People are asking for transparency, not making unreasonable demands.

No one likes to invest their money blindly on something. Plus, lots of people and potential people who will join GBC will do so for what's being offered and not because they trust the admins.

What I'm trying to say here is: you need to have something well explained enough that people will feel confident on participating without having to rely on knowing who the admins are, considering we want new people to join too.

 

[arimakana]

Well, If you don't like something, you can just leave. As I have said, no one is taking a role of a Robhinhood. If you feel like, you are ready to handle all the responsibilities, go make your own GBC and give away courses there.

I think you didn't even read my message. I advice you doing so before replying.

 

[elon]

Are you mentally ill or what? I literally don't understand why you guys have so much hate. Like WTF?!. Don't you fucking understand how much work admins have putted in to this project. You act like a dumb childish kid, who didn't get his candy, and now making a scene out of it. If you don't like something you can just leave, no one is holding you!. If you are so generous and you want to play a role of ROBINHOOD, purchase your own course and give it away! If you are here to get free course, go back to OCC, you will find plenty of free stuff there. You are backing your words with "For the community", but to be honest, you did nothing positive, constructive or beneficial. You are just adding fuel into fire. WHY NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW ADMINS ARE GIVING AWAY FREE PREMIUM! Due to complications with paypal they decided to top-up account with Mediafile and as a Bonus you get FREE PREMIUM MEDAIFILE!!! BUT NOW ONE CARES! Youre a stubborn offended kid, that is crying because mommy didn't buy him a toy

The conclusion is simple...... 3 selfish, hypocritic, mentally ill degenerates took a role of a tumor, which lives at the expense of the host. F#K U guys! If you don't like something just leave. World is not gonna end. There is only 2-3 of you, which is miserable compare to 4k of users (60-chapters -26k views, gatan - 7k, solkorra - 5k). 4 THOUSAND OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP THE COMMUNITY

Thank you!

No one is attacking the admins. What a few have already mentionned is that there is a big lack of transparency.
Many have already contributed on OCC and gave courses for the community.
The admins stated from the start that GBC was created to fund additioanl courses for the community and that they would be shared.
But the admins ended up changing their opinion , were vague about it and ignored many messages and this is a problem!
It's our right to ask for the courses to be shared! That's what was said by the admins on OCC, on telegram and here.
We have shared our courses in the past and we want to let others have the same access than on OCC.

When you fund something or plan to, you have the right to know where the money is going.
There are many fees already when you top up your GBC account so funding mutliple times the same course makes no sense.
Funding one course and moving on to the next one is more more efficient to develop a good library of informarion.
I think you have to agree that funding 15 chapters one by one is more efficient than 5 multiple times and only a small fraction can benefit from them each time.

More than 30 people have participated on the 60 chapters course 10 were plenty; that money could be used to fund other courses!
The admins own media file cloud, when you pay mediafile cloud you pay them like you would with crypto money, but with additional fees.
It's an option, yes thank for providing it other than crypto. Most people here are only willing to participate through paypal.
People only asked for paypal, they are not forcing the admins to add it, the admins themselves said paypal would come soon!
We are just asking when is it going to happen, but suddenly we don't receive any answers!


This is the real issue here, in hopes that you will understand !


The whiny people!

 

[elon]

Well, If you don't like something, you can just leave. As I have said, no one is taking a role of a Robhinhood. If you feel like, you are ready to handle all the responsibilities, go make your own GBC and give away courses there.

Pardon me, aren't we here in "suggestions thread"?
And which opinion are we allowed to have or to express? Mentionning Robinhood sure makes no sense, we don't plan on stealing to give to the poor.
We are here because GBC was advertised on OCC and that this is a GROUP BUY for the COMMUNITY, the plan here from the start was to fund courses for everyone !

We are trying to talk to the admins, to get answers! Because if we don't get any or they change their mind on what they said at the start,it means that it was false advertisement and don't you worry many will leave!

 

[Whitetiger]

Are you mentally ill or what? I literally don't understand why you guys have so much hate. Like WTF?!. Don't you fucking understand how much work admins have putted in to this project. You act like a dumb childish kid, who didn't get his candy, and now making a scene out of it. If you don't like something you can just leave, no one is holding you!. If you are so generous and you want to play a role of ROBINHOOD, purchase your own course and give it away! If you are here to get free course, go back to OCC, you will find plenty of free stuff there. You are backing your words with "For the community", but to be honest, you did nothing positive, constructive or beneficial. You are just adding fuel into fire. WHY NO ONE TALKS ABOUT HOW ADMINS ARE GIVING AWAY FREE PREMIUM! Due to complications with paypal they decided to top-up account with Mediafile and as a Bonus you get FREE PREMIUM MEDAIFILE!!! BUT NOW ONE CARES! Youre a stubborn offended kid, that is crying because mommy didn't buy him a toy

The conclusion is simple...... 3 selfish, hypocritic, mentally ill degenerates took a role of a tumor, which lives at the expense of the host. F#K U guys! If you don't like something just leave. World is not gonna end. There is only 2-3 of you, which is miserable compare to 4k of users (60-chapters -26k views, gatan - 7k, solkorra - 5k). 4 THOUSAND OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE UP THE COMMUNITY

Thank you!

Dude, you're clearly the one who comes across as mentally ill in this case, because before you came, everyone spoke with respect.

To begin with, it was the admins themselves who asked members to create suggestions and in particular on the subject of sharing GBC courses on OCC, because they wanted users' opinions. That's why this page exists. Let me remind you: the word suggested means the action of suggesting. I'm clearly going to talk to you like a child, because given the low level, it's hard to do otherwise.

Secondly, some people were disappointed by owl's announcement, and rightly so. Many people were saddened by the idea that courses funded on GBC would be shared on OCC only to premium users, not because they wanted free courses (as some who commented here had already helped fund several group buys including Elon, who has contributed to many of them), but because they thought they were helping those who couldn't afford it, and at the same time, to contribute to OCC, for which they are grateful. On top of that, they were getting courses at rock-bottom prices, so it was a really nice concept. However, now that there's been this announcement, it's turned a lot of people off.

Third: you're missing something. People pay fees. These fees are supposed to be used by the admins (not the financial participation in each group buy). There is a 10% fee for GBC credits and when you go through the premium purchase, you have a fee of almost 50%.

Fourthly : the other point that is causing concern is that some courses received more than the set amount, notably the 60-chapter anime-style course which was $152 and 34 members who paid $14 each, making almost a total of $500. It's legitimate to ask these questions. Members just want to know if the excess of money can help fund other courses that lack participants and funds. People have the right to know what their money is being used for - it's a question of logic and common sense.

Lastly, the purpose here is to exchange ideas and opinions respectfully, not to insult each other for no reason like 5-year-olds, as you do, full of hate. So please stop trying to stir up trouble. What you're doing is wasting everyone's time, creating a bad atmosphere and fueling animosity.

What's more, it's forbidden to insult members, so it's simple: if you insult anyone again, your replies will be reported.

Every opinion is interesting and can help the community, as long as it's done with respect.

 

[Rico_Rodriguez]

It was set clearly, since the start of GBC. That GBS will follow this procedure:

Fundraising for a course -> Course is bought - > Course is distributed -> Keeps being sold for X months for the double fee price -> The extra amount gathered would be used to fund other courses - > Courses become available in OCC after X months for everyone.

From analyzing, all the comments under this thread and from reading the telegram group, It was clear to me that the main thing that bothers people, especially the founder of spaceX, is that courses that they have paid won't be distributed among the community. And other thing is where all the extra earned funds will go. In response to the first concer, owl have clearly stated that they are not going to just give away the course, since it won't be fair for those who have purchased it. They have said many times, that OCC have nothing to do with GBC and that this two are completely different projects with different goals. In of the post they still said that they might at some point publish the courses obtained on GBC to OCC but only to paid Users, since this seems like the only way to balance things out.

Another thing that concerns, is where funds are going...... Now tell me please, how much do you think, it costs to run servers, work 24/7, 4 years (I don't' remember the precise number) of work on OCC. Just think about it! I've been on OCC since the early beginning, and you can't even imagine how much freaking work, time, money, love and just patience, they have insted into creating OCC. And man, for your better understanding, OCC is not just a website with access to free course. It's a community!!!

After seeing the whole image, I realised that the only thing Xtwitter is concered is about money. And this what cought me off-guard. It's none of his bussiness where the money will go. He got his product, for 10% of the original price or even less. If he wants to share it, he can share, it's not banned. But why he is putting things upside down and giving admins such a headache. Besides just giving admins a headache, but also made some users follow him. With no second thought, that he might not know the whole thing.

And the final drop, was unstoppable complaints about PayPal. I understand that most of the users don't understand how difficult it is, to implement a payment system. but cmon admins said many times, that paypal will be available soon! why you gotta ask them everyday, when paypal will be available.

I hope that after reading this, you will understand, why I was mad (maybe a bit overreacted)

 

[arimakana]

It was set clearly, since the start of GBC. That GBS will follow this procedure:

Fundraising for a course -> Course is bought - > Course is distributed -> Keeps being sold for X months for the double fee price -> The extra amount gathered would be used to fund other courses - > Courses become available in OCC after X months for everyone.

(...)

I believe most people here wouldn't mind this at all.
If this is how it will go, just make a post/write it somewhere so everyone can see.

It's none of his bussiness where the money will go. He got his product, for 10% of the original price or even less.

While i agree the price is already cheap, i think transparency is needed when it comes to money, regardless of anything.
If it's gonna be a case of allowing profit from it, so be it. Just make it clear. With that, those who are ok with it will keep doing it, and those who aren't, will stop. Just like you said, people can just leave.

But when nothing is said, there's room for people to do what just happened here today. No one wants that. As you mentioned, it causes stress and a fuss for all people involved.

Everyone here just wants the same thing: to be able to have access to the courses they need/want, and, if possible, help those who can't. This is a suggestions thread, and people are making their suggestions.

If you really want a course and can afford to participate in the GB, do it.

People just want to know if the amount being gathered by the courses that are already distributed will be used to help with the less popular courses. Because that info alone can help someone deciding on buying an already distributed course or not. Because if it will help other courses, then fine. If not, then they might not want to buy it and just buy some other course that needs people instead.

That's all.

 

[Manuel]

Okay what about, instead of making people vote if they want to share the course or not (because I feel like people will never agree on that looking at some heated reply up there), what about creating some sort of category where the funded course will be shared on OCC ? That way people who want to keep the stuff for themself will not fight with people who want to share it and voila.... I guess

 

[arimakana]

Okay what about, instead of making people vote if they want to share the course or not (because I feel like people will never agree on that looking at some heated reply up there), what about creating some sort of category where the funded course will be shared on OCC ? That way people who want to keep the stuff for themself will not fight with people who want to share it and voila.... I guess

Right now we are already short on members. Doing something that would split the people even more wouldn't help anyone.

I think we should first focus on the group buys as such and think about the sharing aspects later, once GBC is more well structured. Because otherwise no one will get anything.

The cruel truth is: for anyone to have any course, it's first needed for someone to pay for it. Right now we are at the step of finding a way to pay for it with consistency and in a way that can be comfortable for everyone participating on the GB.

For those who want to get the courses for free in OCC, they will have to wait until the first part is all sorted out (and as everyone can tell, we are still in the process of doing so) and then people will be able to focus on how to help them.

 

[Whitetiger]

It was set clearly, since the start of GBC. That GBS will follow this procedure:

Fundraising for a course -> Course is bought - > Course is distributed -> Keeps being sold for X months for the double fee price -> The extra amount gathered would be used to fund other courses - > Courses become available in OCC after X months for everyone.

From analyzing, all the comments under this thread and from reading the telegram group, It was clear to me that the main thing that bothers people, especially the founder of spaceX, is that courses that they have paid won't be distributed among the community. And other thing is where all the extra earned funds will go. In response to the first concer, owl have clearly stated that they are not going to just give away the course, since it won't be fair for those who have purchased it. They have said many times, that OCC have nothing to do with GBC and that this two are completely different projects with different goals. In of the post they still said that they might at some point publish the courses obtained on GBC to OCC but only to paid Users, since this seems like the only way to balance things out.

Another thing that concerns, is where funds are going...... Now tell me please, how much do you think, it costs to run servers, work 24/7, 4 years (I don't' remember the precise number) of work on OCC. Just think about it! I've been on OCC since the early beginning, and you can't even imagine how much freaking work, time, money, love and just patience, they have insted into creating OCC. And man, for your better understanding, OCC is not just a website with access to free course. It's a community!!!

After seeing the whole image, I realised that the only thing Xtwitter is concered is about money. And this what cought me off-guard. It's none of his bussiness where the money will go. He got his product, for 10% of the original price or even less. If he wants to share it, he can share, it's not banned. But why he is putting things upside down and giving admins such a headache. Besides just giving admins a headache, but also made some users follow him. With no second thought, that he might not know the whole thing.

And the final drop, was unstoppable complaints about PayPal. I understand that most of the users don't understand how difficult it is, to implement a payment system. but cmon admins said many times, that paypal will be available soon! why you gotta ask them everyday, when paypal will be available.

I hope that after reading this, you will understand, why I was mad (maybe a bit overreacted)

Thank you for taking the time to reply respectfully and your comments are pertinent.

The main problem is the contradictions and lack of transparency. Why in this case suggest that members create a suggestion concerning the fact that courses could be available on OCC, if in the end they already knew from the start that they would only make them available to premium users? Strawberry made it clear at the outset that he was open to suggestions and was waiting for members' opinions, because he didn't think it was fair that some people should pay, and others get it for free afterwards. This clearly makes sense. However, a good number of people here have expressed their agreement, and in the end, this is not taken into account. That's what leads to disappointment. Some of us had proposed creating a voting system at the end of each group buy (to find out who agrees to share on OCC and at what time period), but no news on this subject.

Secondly: what also seems to bother is the fact that the price per participant doesn't decrease with the number of participants. For example, a course costs $100. We get 20 participants. Why doesn't everyone pay $5? The cheaper the course, the more people attend. And then double the fee for those who arrive later (which will be used to finance other courses).

Third: of course admins work hard and they clearly deserve financial compensation for the hard work they put in. Nevertheless, it's fair to know where the money is going. When you pay for something, you want to be clear about the price of the product (and the content of the product you're getting). But as I explained, you pay a fee and it's supposed to be there to partly compensate the admins. I'm willing to pay additional fees if necessary to support the admins. But it's important to differentiate between fees and contributions per participant for the purchase of a course. The fees are supposed to go to the admins, the contribution per participant for the purchase of a course. If the extra funds obtained on some courses go to other courses that are short of participants/funds, then that's great.

Fourth: people are becoming impatient, and I think there are far too few admins. We clearly need to think about hiring moderators here, if only to help them with member replies, manage private messages, questions and so on. They have far too much work on their own, and their silences don't help the situation, because the fewer replies there are, the more people worry.

To finish, some users find the current methods of payments very complicated. Except that, I agree with you, people don't realize how hard it is to implement Paypal, because Paypal easily freezes accounts if there's the slightest suspicion. Especially since what we're doing isn't authorized, so we're risking a lot, whether it's the admins or the members (the admins are on the front line and take a lot of risks to bring us GBC). But on the other hand, if you don't have a Paypal method, you're potentially missing out on a large number of participants, which we do need.