Suggestion: I'd personally like every course we manage to fund here to be shared on the site OCC.

[Whitetiger]

Hello,
As I said in my previous message, personally, I'd be in favor of all the courses we manage to fund here being able to be shared for free on OCC (as has always been the case, up until now, when someone wanted to share a particular course. I've funded several courses out of my own pocket that I've then shared on OCC for free and I don't think that should change for group buys).

Especially since it divides the community in two:

• those who can pay and have access to a "premium" type of courses
• those who can't afford it and will only be able to access OCC courses (without premium usage)

As a result, we're losing the very essence of the site, which was to provide content for all those who don't have the money. While technically, most of the courses we're trying to fund come from COLOSO, CLASS101, it seems logical to me that these should also be available to everyone, (as was the case when someone shared them on their own).

It's just my suggestion, though, and I'd understand if some people didn't agree. But let's not forget why OCC was created in the first place: to help, not for profit. And it makes me very sad if that changes, because it's currently one of the few sites (and even the only one) that offers this system.

 

[elon]

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How about let contributor voting the time of relasing of course?. It's one of their reward. It's more amicable. Also a premium subscription cost money who gonna take the cost?

They deserve to express their opinion on that matter . A vote is fair.

 

[Whitetiger]

How about let contributor voting the time of relasing of course?. It's one of their reward. It's more amicable. Also a premium subscription cost money who gonna take the cost?

This could be a possibility, at each GB, each participant can vote if they want the course to be shared and at what time interval (but if it's always the same people who finance and have the same opinion, we end up going round in circles, the result will probably often be the same). Nevertheless, every opinion counts, so this is an idea.

A premium subscription is already offered to all those who share courses on OCC for free, so this is the same thing we're doing, except there are several of us in the end. It's no longer just one person funding a course out of his own pocket, but several in this case ? And that's just a quick suggestion, I don't know if it's really possible (and it'll take a long time for the admins to set it up, I think), it doesn't have to be taken into account, far from it.

Personally, what drove me to contribute to group buys was the fact that we were helping those who couldn't afford it. I'm even willing to participate in as many group buys as possible, but making people wait so long makes me reluctant and I find it rather sad that some people think it's justified Even if, once again, you have every right to think that way.

 

[roeroa27]

So you agree to make groups pay multiple times for the same course?
You think that's alright for the artists/ for the people who can't afford to participate and for those who have given a lot of courses on OCC?
Even though on OCC you were able to access content freely you stand with your point of view?
People who have contribute on the past will say f*** you to this elitism/exclusivity and not participate any longer.
Making people pay multiple times, that's reselling.

If the community is more transparent and safer payment plans are implemented more people are going to contribute.
If more people contribute to funding the courses, once and not multiple times, we as a community can focus on a course after the other.
We would than expand the offer of courses and making it accessible for everyone.

Hello I have idea. So let say A course need $400 to be completed. The GBC participant need $20/person The GBC for A course already ending. But I want to course that badly, I willing to pay. Based from the guide I read. I need pay $40. and there's no explanation of that. So here and Idea. The $40 will be used as fundrising to buy new another course for everyone and server maintaince.

 

[OutsideWitDaMink]

Unfortunately, I can't understand this point of view, even though I totally respect it.

How is it justified to make people wait several months? The aim of OCC is normally to make education accessible to all. However, for me, making people wait that long to get it for free is just penalizing those who can't afford to take part in the buying groups and who will have to be patient (which can lead to frustration). Because there, people know that part of the community has access and not them. It's not the same as waiting for someone to share a course they've paid for out of their own pocket, because when that happened, everyone could access it on OCC.

This will create hostility within the community, and quite honestly, whether you put in a certain sharing time or not, in any case the courses will be shared as long as participants have access to them (whether initially in a restricted circle, friends/family, and then little by little, it will continue to be shared) so from this point of view, what's the point of taking 3 to 5 months when they'll probably be shared (and may end up on other sites before they're even available on OCC) ? After all, you can't guarantee that none of the participants will share the course with anyone else.

You may find the delay reasonable, but those who wait probably won't.

I'd be more up for a few weeks or 1 month, and reward participants with a premium subscription for a few days/weeks, for example. But I'm against the idea of making those who can't afford it wait at least 3-5 months. Frankly, I find that very selfish.

The essence of my point of view centers on the very intention behind GBC. Is it meant to stand as a distinct entity from OCC, a platform solely for group buys, or does it merely serve as a mechanism to enrich OCC's content? It's a crucial question that should be left to the vibrant voices of our community to decide, and that's why I propose embracing both private and public buys in separate sections.

I am pretty sure Strawberry or other OCC staff, have embarked on group buys in the past where access was exclusively granted to the contributors, which nobody has leaked or shared these exclusive courses. While OCC's mission undoubtedly revolves around providing free education, we must now discern the true objective of GBC.

Our aim should be to find that perfect balance, a solution that fosters collaboration, inclusivity, and meaningful contributions. Also, the time frame doesn't need to be set in stone at 3-5 months; rather, it should be an incentive that encourages people to partake in the collective effort.

 

[OutsideWitDaMink]

So you agree to make groups pay multiple times for the same course?
You think that's alright for the artists/ for the people who can't afford to participate and for those who have given a lot of courses on OCC?
Even though on OCC you were able to access content freely you stand with your point of view?
People who have contribute on the past will say f*** you to this elitism/exclusivity and not participate any longer.
Making people pay multiple times, that's reselling.

If the community is more transparent and safer payment plans are implemented more people are going to contribute.
If more people contribute to funding the courses, once and not multiple times, we as a community can focus on a course after the other.
We would than expand the offer of courses and making it accessible for everyone.

Absolutely, and let's not overlook a crucial aspect here - supporting the people who create the courses and recognizing the immense value they bring to the table. It's entirely reasonable for people to purchase a course multiple times, as this directly sustains the creators' livelihoods, enables them to pay their bills, support their teams, and continue crafting more enriching content for all of us.

Now, let's delve into the crux of the matter - my suggestion doesn't even propose that courses funded through private group buys remain exclusive indefinitely. On the contrary, I believe the decision on accessibility should rest in the hands of those actively participating. It's about empowerment and choice, giving the community the voice to determine a reasonable time frame for exclusive access, creating a fair balance for all involved.

Also, do you know what's fascinating? OCC has already ventured into exclusive group buys in the past, and guess what? It's been a smooth sail, with no issues to report. At the end of the day, If the general consensus leans towards making every course funded through GBC available immediately, at no cost, and for everyone that is perfectly fine and I am on board.

 

[Whitetiger]

The essence of my point of view centers on the very intention behind GBC. Is it meant to stand as a distinct entity from OCC, a platform solely for group buys, or does it merely serve as a mechanism to enrich OCC's content? It's a crucial question that should be left to the vibrant voices of our community to decide, and that's why I propose embracing both private and public buys in separate sections.

I am pretty sure Strawberry or other OCC staff, have embarked on group buys in the past where access was exclusively granted to the contributors, which nobody has leaked or shared these exclusive courses. While OCC's mission undoubtedly revolves around providing free education, we must now discern the true objective of GBC.

Our aim should be to find that perfect balance, a solution that fosters collaboration, inclusivity, and meaningful contributions. Also, the time frame doesn't need to be set in stone at 3-5 months; rather, it should be an incentive that encourages people to partake in the collective effort.

This platform was normally supposed to be a complement to OCC, or at least to help enrich the site's content (from what I understood at the outset, and that's why I personally signed up, but that's my own understanding anyway so I could be wrong). It's getting more and more complicated to get certain courses, especially Coloso. You need a minimum of knowledge to be able to remove the watermarks. It's far from easy, so fewer and fewer people are likely to be able to specifically share courses for free, from this site.

So, the aim of the community was therefore to help obtain more content and videos of a certain quality.

Regarding the rest of your comment, currently, there have been other buying groups, but that ended up as a scam (at least you can easily find other members talking about it), so I can't affirm the point you're making.

Third, I'm taking part because I can afford to, and nobody's forcing me to. I do it because certain courses interest me and if at the same time it can give other people access to them, including those who don't have the means, that's what motivates me to finance these courses.

There are 3 main factors that will motivate people to participate:

- A low cost per participant. If courses cost as little as $4 per participant, it's much more accessible.
- Reliability/security.
- A simple payment method.

That's all there is to it. I think it's important to understand that those who don't participate aren't people who don't want to. For some, it's just not possible due to their financial situation. And that's what OCC is all about: making education accessible to all. So there's no point in making them wait several months, as they'll probably never be able to take part in the "collective effort" as you put it (or at least not immediately). And these users don't have a premium account, it can take several days to download a full course. So, my point was simply that, in any case, those who get it for free aren't going to download the course in two seconds - quite the contrary. In my opinion, we need to find a reasonable waiting time and 3 - 5 months seems far too long to me. Instead, we should be focusing on how to make a method of payment accessible, to make it easier for everyone to participate, and to provide clear information.

 

[strawberry]

...If the general consensus leans towards making every course funded through GBC available immediately, at no cost, and for everyone that is perfectly fine and I am on board.

If we make content purchased collaboratively available to everyone (I'm referring to more than just our users - there are also a number of other websites that copy our content,) we can lose 90-99% of community members' cash from the fundraising purposes you mentioned earlier in this thread. I really like your idea. Imagine a powerful pump that can provide incredible content that hasn't been released yet, like a swiss army knife of sorts. It is important to carefully consider how to implement this idea. For example, during GB, participants could have a vote to determine the priority of the next fundraiser. Additionally, they could have access to that courses without fees or at a discounted rate. It is crucial to find a balance that encourages continued participation, contribution and engagement

 

[strawberry]

...A simple payment method.

occ reseller reported today that he had a moneyback claim dispute in pp yesterday or a day ago. For a 3-month voucher This is not a simple matter and requires careful consideration from various angles... and I expect to see here only individuals who share the same ideas and principles. I don't want the GBC project ruined because someone wants to take the content for free. I have always made it clear that OCC will be free for everyone, and I only deviated from that rule twice, and only when users who shared courses asked me to do so

 

[Whitetiger]

occ reseller reported today that he has a moneyback claim in pp yesterday or a day ago. For a 3-month voucher . This is not a simple matter and requires careful consideration from various angles... and my expectation is to see here only individuals who share the same ideas and principles. I don't want the GBC project to be ruined because someone wants to take the content for free. I have always made it clear that OCC will be free for everyone, and only deviated from that rule twice, and only when users who shared courses asked me to do so

It's really annoying and not fair, I feel sorry reading this.. Indeed, that's the risk with Paypal: buyers abuse the possibility of getting their money back easily by opening disputes. There have been stories like this for I don't know how many online store owners as well, where customers receive orders but still open a claim and manage to get the money back + a free order. It's really terrible, but fortunately not everyone does it.

I think you have to take into account that people are afraid it's a scam (and that crypto isn't always the solution, especially since in some countries it's forbidden, so the buyer takes considerable risks, even using a VPN). On the one hand, many are blocked by payment methods, and want to contribute, but are not reassured. Maybe try something other than Paypal, like Venmo ?

In my opinion, it's important to find a balance between :
- the GB participants, perhaps by giving them rewards, a supplement (for example, a funded course = free access to another course that has already been funded) and the ability to vote on whether to share on OCC each course they finance, with a time limit, for example : 1-3 months / 3-5 months etc
- Without neglecting free users, who might feel left out, and therefore finding a reasonable waiting time.

Finding this balance won't be easy, but it seems to me essential to ensure the community's sustainability (without creating hostility) and the future courses we'll be funding. Not to mention the safety/reliability aspect, which is very important, of course.

 

[Expultese]

Yeah finding the right balance is going to be very important. It would be hard to incentivize people to participate if others are going to get the content with all the same perks as those that did at no cost to themselves. If every person starts thinking "it's going to be free right away anyways i'll just let other people shoulder the cost" then nothing will get funded. It's human nature unfortunately. This is especially important if people are going to try funding big ticket courses like CGMA, AnimSchool etc. I agree that voting between the members that participate in each group buy on what to do with the content is a good idea.

Maybe try a pay-what-you-can model starting at something low like $5 (a little more for higher cost courses) and then have tiered incentives the more you pay like priority enrollment in future group buys, no download wait time/ instant download speed access, buy-one-get-get-one (BOGO), etc.?

 

[YMCH]

I do think that 3 months may be a little too long but its not that unreasonable either, for me 1 month is a pretty comfortable head start before eventually uploading those to occ. After all i agree that theres no reason for it to be not uploaded to occ since we who fund those gbc mostly used and downloaded many of the classes before then too including me, and for us to be not willing for those courses to be uploaded to occ would be hypocrisy. Those courses before gbc are even donated by a person for free so i dont see why we wouldnt do the same considering we even only paid 5-10% of the full price. But to avoid any spite or enmity over one another i do think a considerable reward for those who funded is important

 

[YMCH]

I dont know if this would be a good idea or not but lemme just try putting this out here. We can try an explore the methods thats used for a few artist to run a patreon, for example the price per participant for the gb was originally 10$ and after the gb is completed it would be uploaded to gbc after a period of time has passed for an headstart for those who funded. After that though the course would stay public for some period of time (idk how long would be feasible) and then the course would then go back to paid courses but with the same original participant price or maybe cheaper or maybe more expensive, again i dont know which would be feasible, and a portion of the funds collected from people buying that would be used for buying future courses. This is pretty much like how some artist issues a montly patreon reward and then after the month had passed they sold those rewards at gumroad. We can try the same concept here but again idk if this would be possible or not since im not experienced in running this. It would also be good to add more variants of payment methods since even paypal, crypto and credit card is still not that acessible for those below 18 but still want to seriously learn resulting in less funding

 

[strawberry]

That is a perfect point. So for Patreon or other subscription-based resources, we can run groups in a forum. Let's say the subscription fee is $10 a mo on Patreon. We can make all content available for group participants for, let's say, $5. As soon as there are new stuff becomes available on Patreon, some users may want to get access to the latest content and support the group with their participation fees. The difference here is that members of that GBC group have 'lifelong' access to all resources as soon as they get downloaded by the group leader. And as soon as members decide to make it available to OCC, they can contact me with the instructions on what to make public and a message to occ community on how to participate and support the latest updates
Isn't it too complicated?

 

[YMCH]

Nope, i understand what youre saying, technically that would be a good idea. But again this still needs further discussion with the community

 

[YMCH]

I dont know if this would be a good idea or not but lemme just try putting this out here. We can try an explore the methods thats used for a few artist to run a patreon, for example the price per participant for the gb was originally 10$ and after the gb is completed it would be uploaded to gbc after a period of time has passed for an headstart for those who funded. After that though the course would stay public for some period of time (idk how long would be feasible) and then the course would then go back to paid courses but with the same original participant price or maybe cheaper or maybe more expensive, again i dont know which would be feasible, and a portion of the funds collected from people buying that would be used for buying future courses. This is pretty much like how some artist issues a montly patreon reward and then after the month had passed they sold those rewards at gumroad. We can try the same concept here but again idk if this would be possible or not since im not experienced in running this. It would also be good to add more variants of payment methods since even paypal, crypto and credit card is still not that acessible for those below 18 but still want to seriously learn resulting in less funding

also the part "after the gb is completed it would be uploaded to gbc" should be "after the gb is completed it would be uploaded to occ" sorry i mistyped

 

[strawberry]

I don't agree of this. Because it's contradict with your patreon idea. Once it's upload it gonna circulate to the other sites especially popular course like coloso. It would defeat your patreon idea then. Why people need pay patreon if they can get the course free from another sites?

It is indeed true that we must create a design that minimizes the impact on patreon authors while also beong advantageous to our community members

 

[YMCH]

welp thats true, i guess further research is needed for since this is quite a complicated problem

 

[Whitetiger]

Alternatively, instead of Patreon, why not create a ko-fi page? It's a site that accepts donations, so what we could do is simply have each person who makes a donation of $10, for example, have direct access to the GBC courses (instead of waiting 1 month or more to get it for free). Many artists use it! When making a donation, the person has to indicate their their GBC user name, it is possible to make donations with anonymous messages. Or contact the admins as soon as they've made a donation, with a screenshot as proof, and then they get access to the funded courses here?

Paypal payments are simplified on this site, with the option of paying directly by credit card or with stripe. Subscriptions are also available, like Patreon. It seems to me that there is no charge for donations, only a 5% fee per subscription (which is still reasonable).

 

[roeroa27]

Alternatively, instead of Patreon, why not create a ko-fi page? It's a site that accepts donations, so what we could do is simply have each person who makes a donation of $10, for example, have direct access to the GBC courses (instead of waiting 1 month or more to get it for free). Many artists use it! When making a donation, the person has to indicate their their GBC user name, it is possible to make donations with anonymous messages. Or contact the admins as soon as they've made a donation, with a screenshot as proof, and then they get access to the funded courses here?

Paypal payments are simplified on this site, with the option of paying directly by credit card or with stripe. Subscriptions are also available, like Patreon. It seems to me that there is no charge for donations, only a 5% fee per subscription (which is still reasonable).

Pretty sure. Our action violate kofi's term. https://help.ko-fi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007937553-Prohibited-Content-and-Uses-of-Ko-fi

 

[Whitetiger]

Pretty sure. Our action violate kofi's term. https://help.ko-fi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007937553-Prohibited-Content-and-Uses-of-Ko-fi

Are you aware that no site will tolerate our actions ? There is literally no site that accepts what we do. So the suggestion is to make it look like an art page and not to publish the course content there. People will be redirected to GBC if they wish to obtain the videos of a particular course, for example. It'll just be a page to get payments/donations/subscriptions.

It might be a good idea to find a patreon-type platform, which will group together the possibility of paying more easily, thus enabling more people to contribute to the community. At some point, we have to find a solution, because if we want more people to finance the courses here, we need simpler payment methods.

Now, I don't know what's possible for admins, but I think it's crucial to reflect on this point. A lot of people want to pay and finance these courses here, but current payment methods are too complicated.